Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have regulatory country set in my Capsman controller and tx strength at default. Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. Long time stalker, first time poster. Regards, Erin Murphy CHASE AV t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
Hi Erin, that's an interesting observation, I would have said the opposite to be honest, I find the range pretty good on the AP's we use. Have you checked what TX Power they are running ? is that showing correctly ? What about a WAP by itself, is it any different to when it's being controlled by CAPSMAN ? Regards Paul -----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have regulatory country set in my Capsman controller and tx strength at default. Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. Long time stalker, first time poster. Regards, Erin Murphy CHASE AV t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
I have good performance from the WAPACs. As a rule it's roughly 1 AP per void/room at 5GHz - and that's assuming the AP is on the people side of the wall, not hidden in a roof plenum or occluded by a pillar or column. Don't expect much once walls get in the way but I have been surprised sometimes. Also, if you set CAPSMAN or the AP to Auto channel at 5GHz you will see in CAPSMAN that depending on the channel the power output is not consistent, but actually conforms to allowed power levels for that channel. See the Wikipedia page on 5GHz ISM band for per channel power levels and radar detection. Also, I have noticed the WAPACs work best when vertical. I have notice a power level drop, even in Winbox, if they are lying horizontal. Once place has a dead spot at 5GHz of 1m radius. Step 1m either side and it works again! On 21 September 2017 at 07:50, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
Hi Erin, that's an interesting observation, I would have said the opposite to be honest, I find the range pretty good on the AP's we use.
Have you checked what TX Power they are running ? is that showing correctly ? What about a WAP by itself, is it any different to when it's being controlled by CAPSMAN ?
Regards Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have regulatory country set in my Capsman controller and tx strength at default. Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. Long time stalker, first time poster.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
That's what I've found too, a 5Ghz AP for each room/void which works great but other brands do seem to go further. I leave the Tx power field alone so it's greyed out and I presume at default levels for Australia. I figured it will cause other unwanted issues if you just bump up that value. I have noticed that the 5GHz channels do fluctuate depending on the channel. I wondered if CAPSMAN was smart enough to regulate TX power depending on the clients device and vicinity to the AP but it's just regulatory power levels right? I've checked power levels using the wifi scan on the Airport utility app on my phone and it's a lot lower than other AP's from my experience. Those things might just be flooding the area with brute force and that's what I've got used too? I'll have to take the AP's off CAPSMAN and see how they behave and also try the vertical vs horizontal comparison. Regards, Erin Murphy CHASE AV t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
I have good performance from the WAPACs. As a rule it's roughly 1 AP per void/room at 5GHz - and that's assuming the AP is on the people side of the wall, not hidden in a roof plenum or occluded by a pillar or column. Don't expect much once walls get in the way but I have been surprised sometimes. Also, if you set CAPSMAN or the AP to Auto channel at 5GHz you will see in CAPSMAN that depending on the channel the power output is not consistent, but actually conforms to allowed power levels for that channel. See the Wikipedia page on 5GHz ISM band for per channel power levels and radar detection. Also, I have noticed the WAPACs work best when vertical. I have notice a power level drop, even in Winbox, if they are lying horizontal.
Once place has a dead spot at 5GHz of 1m radius. Step 1m either side and it works again!
On 21 September 2017 at 07:50, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
Hi Erin, that's an interesting observation, I would have said the opposite to be honest, I find the range pretty good on the AP's we use.
Have you checked what TX Power they are running ? is that showing correctly ? What about a WAP by itself, is it any different to when it's being controlled by CAPSMAN ?
Regards Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have regulatory country set in my Capsman controller and tx strength at default. Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. Long time stalker, first time poster.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
-- <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
I'm not convinced that other brands actually run correct power levels, most people leave them on US settings, I often notice AP's at places I go and wonder how on earth they are getting the range they are on legal settings.... Paul -----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 8:17 AM To: jason@upandrunningtech.com.au; MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range That's what I've found too, a 5Ghz AP for each room/void which works great but other brands do seem to go further. I leave the Tx power field alone so it's greyed out and I presume at default levels for Australia. I figured it will cause other unwanted issues if you just bump up that value. I have noticed that the 5GHz channels do fluctuate depending on the channel. I wondered if CAPSMAN was smart enough to regulate TX power depending on the clients device and vicinity to the AP but it's just regulatory power levels right? I've checked power levels using the wifi scan on the Airport utility app on my phone and it's a lot lower than other AP's from my experience. Those things might just be flooding the area with brute force and that's what I've got used too? I'll have to take the AP's off CAPSMAN and see how they behave and also try the vertical vs horizontal comparison. Regards, Erin Murphy CHASE AV t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
I have good performance from the WAPACs. As a rule it's roughly 1 AP per void/room at 5GHz - and that's assuming the AP is on the people side of the wall, not hidden in a roof plenum or occluded by a pillar or column. Don't expect much once walls get in the way but I have been surprised sometimes. Also, if you set CAPSMAN or the AP to Auto channel at 5GHz you will see in CAPSMAN that depending on the channel the power output is not consistent, but actually conforms to allowed power levels for that channel. See the Wikipedia page on 5GHz ISM band for per channel power levels and radar detection. Also, I have noticed the WAPACs work best when vertical. I have notice a power level drop, even in Winbox, if they are lying horizontal.
Once place has a dead spot at 5GHz of 1m radius. Step 1m either side and it works again!
On 21 September 2017 at 07:50, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
Hi Erin, that's an interesting observation, I would have said the opposite to be honest, I find the range pretty good on the AP's we use.
Have you checked what TX Power they are running ? is that showing correctly ? What about a WAP by itself, is it any different to when it's being controlled by CAPSMAN ?
Regards Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have regulatory country set in my Capsman controller and tx strength at default. Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. Long time stalker, first time poster.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
-- <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com. au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
They might have a better antenna configuration and a flatter doughnut shaped beam pattern with higher gain as a result. Given handdeld devices usually have crummy antennas and human in the way 1/2 time they might get a great signal from a loud AP but the return leg won't be so great. Certainly at 5GHz you're better of increasing AP density and lower power to promote smooth roaming but maintain high speeds. For most demanding home jobs the Wifi link has to keep up with 100/40 NBN speeds which 2.4GHz 20MHz channels won't be so good at, even with a tail wind. I haven't bothered with 5GHz at home as am still on a crummy 10/1 ADSL2 link - 12 months to go! On 21 September 2017 at 08:48, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
I'm not convinced that other brands actually run correct power levels, most people leave them on US settings, I often notice AP's at places I go and wonder how on earth they are getting the range they are on legal settings....
Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 8:17 AM To: jason@upandrunningtech.com.au; MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
That's what I've found too, a 5Ghz AP for each room/void which works great but other brands do seem to go further. I leave the Tx power field alone so it's greyed out and I presume at default levels for Australia. I figured it will cause other unwanted issues if you just bump up that value. I have noticed that the 5GHz channels do fluctuate depending on the channel. I wondered if CAPSMAN was smart enough to regulate TX power depending on the clients device and vicinity to the AP but it's just regulatory power levels right? I've checked power levels using the wifi scan on the Airport utility app on my phone and it's a lot lower than other AP's from my experience. Those things might just be flooding the area with brute force and that's what I've got used too? I'll have to take the AP's off CAPSMAN and see how they behave and also try the vertical vs horizontal comparison.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
I have good performance from the WAPACs. As a rule it's roughly 1 AP per void/room at 5GHz - and that's assuming the AP is on the people side of the wall, not hidden in a roof plenum or occluded by a pillar or column. Don't expect much once walls get in the way but I have been surprised sometimes. Also, if you set CAPSMAN or the AP to Auto channel at 5GHz you will see in CAPSMAN that depending on the channel the power output is not consistent, but actually conforms to allowed power levels for that channel. See the Wikipedia page on 5GHz ISM band for per channel power levels and radar detection. Also, I have noticed the WAPACs work best when vertical. I have notice a power level drop, even in Winbox, if they are lying horizontal.
Once place has a dead spot at 5GHz of 1m radius. Step 1m either side and it works again!
On 21 September 2017 at 07:50, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
Hi Erin, that's an interesting observation, I would have said the opposite to be honest, I find the range pretty good on the AP's we use.
Have you checked what TX Power they are running ? is that showing correctly ? What about a WAP by itself, is it any different to when it's being controlled by CAPSMAN ?
Regards Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have regulatory country set in my Capsman controller and tx strength at default. Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. Long time stalker, first time poster.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
-- <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com. au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
Yep I'm a fan of keeping the noise down and not broadcasting to the entire suburb. Since using Mikrotik I've learnt a lot about Wifi and networking in general that you don't learn with the other brands. This 'fast roaming' thing seems to be a bit of a hoax considering it's always a client decision to switch AP's. Will keep using Mikrotik and gradually move customers over to 5GHz only with more AP density. On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 at 9:00 am, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
They might have a better antenna configuration and a flatter doughnut shaped beam pattern with higher gain as a result. Given handdeld devices usually have crummy antennas and human in the way 1/2 time they might get a great signal from a loud AP but the return leg won't be so great. Certainly at 5GHz you're better of increasing AP density and lower power to promote smooth roaming but maintain high speeds. For most demanding home jobs the Wifi link has to keep up with 100/40 NBN speeds which 2.4GHz 20MHz channels won't be so good at, even with a tail wind. I haven't bothered with 5GHz at home as am still on a crummy 10/1 ADSL2 link - 12 months to go!
On 21 September 2017 at 08:48, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
I'm not convinced that other brands actually run correct power levels, most people leave them on US settings, I often notice AP's at places I go and wonder how on earth they are getting the range they are on legal settings....
Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 8:17 AM To: jason@upandrunningtech.com.au; MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
That's what I've found too, a 5Ghz AP for each room/void which works great but other brands do seem to go further. I leave the Tx power field alone so it's greyed out and I presume at default levels for Australia. I figured it will cause other unwanted issues if you just bump up that value. I have noticed that the 5GHz channels do fluctuate depending on the channel. I wondered if CAPSMAN was smart enough to regulate TX power depending on the clients device and vicinity to the AP but it's just regulatory power levels right? I've checked power levels using the wifi scan on the Airport utility app on my phone and it's a lot lower than other AP's from my experience. Those things might just be flooding the area with brute force and that's what I've got used too? I'll have to take the AP's off CAPSMAN and see how they behave and also try the vertical vs horizontal comparison.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
I have good performance from the WAPACs. As a rule it's roughly 1 AP per void/room at 5GHz - and that's assuming the AP is on the people side of the wall, not hidden in a roof plenum or occluded by a pillar or column. Don't expect much once walls get in the way but I have been surprised sometimes. Also, if you set CAPSMAN or the AP to Auto channel at 5GHz you will see in CAPSMAN that depending on the channel the power output is not consistent, but actually conforms to allowed power levels for that channel. See the Wikipedia page on 5GHz ISM band for per channel power levels and radar detection. Also, I have noticed the WAPACs work best when vertical. I have notice a power level drop, even in Winbox, if they are lying horizontal.
Once place has a dead spot at 5GHz of 1m radius. Step 1m either side and it works again!
On 21 September 2017 at 07:50, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
Hi Erin, that's an interesting observation, I would have said the opposite to be honest, I find the range pretty good on the AP's we use.
Have you checked what TX Power they are running ? is that showing correctly ? What about a WAP by itself, is it any different to when it's being controlled by CAPSMAN ?
Regards Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have regulatory country set in my Capsman controller and tx strength at default. Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. Long time stalker, first time poster.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
-- <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com. au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
-- <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
:-D - it's a BIT of a hoax, yes, but it can be done from the AP side by masquerading mac addresses and having a smart central controller that handles the transitions. In reality, though, most cases of managed roaming are little more than marketing spin ;) RouterOS access-control capability to kick clients that drop below some determined signal level is a quite effective way to deal with that 'client choice' issue, but with some devices (I'm looking at YOU, apple ;) it's still a bit like herding cats! Cheers! Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 9:35 AM To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au>; jason@upandrunningtech.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Yep I'm a fan of keeping the noise down and not broadcasting to the entire suburb. Since using Mikrotik I've learnt a lot about Wifi and networking in general that you don't learn with the other brands. This 'fast roaming' thing seems to be a bit of a hoax considering it's always a client decision to switch AP's. Will keep using Mikrotik and gradually move customers over to 5GHz only with more AP density.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 at 9:00 am, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
They might have a better antenna configuration and a flatter doughnut shaped beam pattern with higher gain as a result. Given handdeld devices usually have crummy antennas and human in the way 1/2 time they might get a great signal from a loud AP but the return leg won't be so great. Certainly at 5GHz you're better of increasing AP density and lower power to promote smooth roaming but maintain high speeds. For most demanding home jobs the Wifi link has to keep up with 100/40 NBN speeds which 2.4GHz 20MHz channels won't be so good at, even with a tail wind. I haven't bothered with 5GHz at home as am still on a crummy 10/1 ADSL2 link - 12 months to go!
On 21 September 2017 at 08:48, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
I'm not convinced that other brands actually run correct power levels, most people leave them on US settings, I often notice AP's at places I go and wonder how on earth they are getting the range they are on legal settings....
Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 8:17 AM To: jason@upandrunningtech.com.au; MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
That's what I've found too, a 5Ghz AP for each room/void which works great but other brands do seem to go further. I leave the Tx power field alone so it's greyed out and I presume at default levels for Australia. I figured it will cause other unwanted issues if you just bump up that value. I have noticed that the 5GHz channels do fluctuate depending on the channel. I wondered if CAPSMAN was smart enough to regulate TX power depending on the clients device and vicinity to the AP but it's just regulatory power levels right? I've checked power levels using the wifi scan on the Airport utility app on my phone and it's a lot lower than other AP's from my experience. Those things might just be flooding the area with brute force and that's what I've got used too? I'll have to take the AP's off CAPSMAN and see how they behave and also try the vertical vs horizontal comparison.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
I have good performance from the WAPACs. As a rule it's roughly 1 AP per void/room at 5GHz - and that's assuming the AP is on the people side of the wall, not hidden in a roof plenum or occluded by a pillar or column. Don't expect much once walls get in the way but I have been surprised sometimes. Also, if you set CAPSMAN or the AP to Auto channel at 5GHz you will see in CAPSMAN that depending on the channel the power output is not consistent, but actually conforms to allowed power levels for that channel. See the Wikipedia page on 5GHz ISM band for per channel power levels and radar detection. Also, I have noticed the WAPACs work best when vertical. I have notice a power level drop, even in Winbox, if they are lying horizontal.
Once place has a dead spot at 5GHz of 1m radius. Step 1m either side and it works again!
On 21 September 2017 at 07:50, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
Hi Erin, that's an interesting observation, I would have said the opposite to be honest, I find the range pretty good on the AP's we use.
Have you checked what TX Power they are running ? is that showing correctly ? What about a WAP by itself, is it any different to when it's being controlled by CAPSMAN ?
Regards Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have regulatory country set in my Capsman controller and tx strength at default. Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. Long time stalker, first time poster.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikroti k.co m.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikroti k.co m.au
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Thanks there's a couple of good reads with some good things to try. Does masquerading AP MAC address (all but one?) achieve the same result as the Unifi method where the controller gets the AP's to appear as one MAC address to the client? Regards, Erin Murphy CHASE AV t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Mike Everest <mike@duxtel.com> wrote:
:-D - it's a BIT of a hoax, yes, but it can be done from the AP side by masquerading mac addresses and having a smart central controller that handles the transitions. In reality, though, most cases of managed roaming are little more than marketing spin ;)
RouterOS access-control capability to kick clients that drop below some determined signal level is a quite effective way to deal with that 'client choice' issue, but with some devices (I'm looking at YOU, apple ;) it's still a bit like herding cats!
Cheers!
Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 9:35 AM To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au>; jason@upandrunningtech.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Yep I'm a fan of keeping the noise down and not broadcasting to the entire suburb. Since using Mikrotik I've learnt a lot about Wifi and networking in general that you don't learn with the other brands. This 'fast roaming' thing seems to be a bit of a hoax considering it's always a client decision to switch AP's. Will keep using Mikrotik and gradually move customers over to 5GHz only with more AP density.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 at 9:00 am, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
They might have a better antenna configuration and a flatter doughnut shaped beam pattern with higher gain as a result. Given handdeld devices usually have crummy antennas and human in the way 1/2 time they might get a great signal from a loud AP but the return leg won't be so great. Certainly at 5GHz you're better of increasing AP density and lower power to promote smooth roaming but maintain high speeds. For most demanding home jobs the Wifi link has to keep up with 100/40 NBN speeds which 2.4GHz 20MHz channels won't be so good at, even with a tail wind. I haven't bothered with 5GHz at home as am still on a crummy 10/1 ADSL2 link - 12 months to go!
On 21 September 2017 at 08:48, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
I'm not convinced that other brands actually run correct power levels, most people leave them on US settings, I often notice AP's at places I go and wonder how on earth they are getting the range they are on legal settings....
Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 8:17 AM To: jason@upandrunningtech.com.au; MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
That's what I've found too, a 5Ghz AP for each room/void which works great but other brands do seem to go further. I leave the Tx power field alone so it's greyed out and I presume at default levels for Australia. I figured it will cause other unwanted issues if you just bump up that value. I have noticed that the 5GHz channels do fluctuate depending on the channel. I wondered if CAPSMAN was smart enough to regulate TX power depending on the clients device and vicinity to the AP but it's just regulatory power levels right? I've checked power levels using the wifi scan on the Airport utility app on my phone and it's a lot lower than other AP's from my experience. Those things might just be flooding the area with brute force and that's what I've got used too? I'll have to take the AP's off CAPSMAN and see how they behave and also try the vertical vs horizontal comparison.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
I have good performance from the WAPACs. As a rule it's roughly 1 AP per void/room at 5GHz - and that's assuming the AP is on the people side of the wall, not hidden in a roof plenum or occluded by a pillar or column. Don't expect much once walls get in the way but I have been surprised sometimes. Also, if you set CAPSMAN or the AP to Auto channel at 5GHz you will see in CAPSMAN that depending on the channel the power output is not consistent, but actually conforms to allowed power levels for that channel. See the Wikipedia page on 5GHz ISM band for per channel power levels and radar detection. Also, I have noticed the WAPACs work best when vertical. I have notice a power level drop, even in Winbox, if they are lying horizontal.
Once place has a dead spot at 5GHz of 1m radius. Step 1m either side and it works again!
On 21 September 2017 at 07:50, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
Hi Erin, that's an interesting observation, I would have said the opposite to be honest, I find the range pretty good on the AP's we use.
Have you checked what TX Power they are running ? is that showing correctly ? What about a WAP by itself, is it any different to when it's being controlled by CAPSMAN ?
Regards Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have regulatory country set in my Capsman controller and tx strength at default. Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. Long time stalker, first time poster.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikroti k.co m.au
_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikroti k.co m.au
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_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.co m.au
-- <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com. au
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I also found if you're too aggressive with the access list and kick the client off before they're ready they spend a while in limbo before jumping on to the next AP. Thanks for the answers! Erin Murphy CHASE AV t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Erin Murphy <erin@chaseav.com.au> wrote:
Thanks there's a couple of good reads with some good things to try. Does masquerading AP MAC address (all but one?) achieve the same result as the Unifi method where the controller gets the AP's to appear as one MAC address to the client?
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Mike Everest <mike@duxtel.com> wrote:
:-D - it's a BIT of a hoax, yes, but it can be done from the AP side by masquerading mac addresses and having a smart central controller that handles the transitions. In reality, though, most cases of managed roaming are little more than marketing spin ;)
RouterOS access-control capability to kick clients that drop below some determined signal level is a quite effective way to deal with that 'client choice' issue, but with some devices (I'm looking at YOU, apple ;) it's still a bit like herding cats!
Cheers!
Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 9:35 AM To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au>; jason@upandrunningtech.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Yep I'm a fan of keeping the noise down and not broadcasting to the entire suburb. Since using Mikrotik I've learnt a lot about Wifi and networking in general that you don't learn with the other brands. This 'fast roaming' thing seems to be a bit of a hoax considering it's always a client decision to switch AP's. Will keep using Mikrotik and gradually move customers over to 5GHz only with more AP density.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 at 9:00 am, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
They might have a better antenna configuration and a flatter doughnut shaped beam pattern with higher gain as a result. Given handdeld devices usually have crummy antennas and human in the way 1/2 time they might get a great signal from a loud AP but the return leg won't be so great. Certainly at 5GHz you're better of increasing AP density and lower power to promote smooth roaming but maintain high speeds. For most demanding home jobs the Wifi link has to keep up with 100/40 NBN speeds which 2.4GHz 20MHz channels won't be so good at, even with a tail wind. I haven't bothered with 5GHz at home as am still on a crummy 10/1 ADSL2 link - 12 months to go!
On 21 September 2017 at 08:48, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
I'm not convinced that other brands actually run correct power levels, most people leave them on US settings, I often notice AP's at places I go and wonder how on earth they are getting the range they are on legal settings....
Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 8:17 AM To: jason@upandrunningtech.com.au; MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
That's what I've found too, a 5Ghz AP for each room/void which works great but other brands do seem to go further. I leave the Tx power field alone so it's greyed out and I presume at default levels for Australia. I figured it will cause other unwanted issues if you just bump up that value. I have noticed that the 5GHz channels do fluctuate depending on the channel. I wondered if CAPSMAN was smart enough to regulate TX power depending on the clients device and vicinity to the AP but it's just regulatory power levels right? I've checked power levels using the wifi scan on the Airport utility app on my phone and it's a lot lower than other AP's from my experience. Those things might just be flooding the area with brute force and that's what I've got used too? I'll have to take the AP's off CAPSMAN and see how they behave and also try the vertical vs horizontal comparison.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
I have good performance from the WAPACs. As a rule it's roughly 1 AP per void/room at 5GHz - and that's assuming the AP is on the people side of the wall, not hidden in a roof plenum or occluded by a pillar or column. Don't expect much once walls get in the way but I have been surprised sometimes. Also, if you set CAPSMAN or the AP to Auto channel at 5GHz you will see in CAPSMAN that depending on the channel the power output is not consistent, but actually conforms to allowed power levels for that channel. See the Wikipedia page on 5GHz ISM band for per channel power levels and radar detection. Also, I have noticed the WAPACs work best when vertical. I have notice a power level drop, even in Winbox, if they are lying horizontal.
Once place has a dead spot at 5GHz of 1m radius. Step 1m either side and it works again!
On 21 September 2017 at 07:50, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
> Hi Erin, that's an interesting observation, I would have said > the opposite > to be honest, I find the range pretty good on the AP's we use. > > Have you checked what TX Power they are running ? is that > showing correctly ? > What about a WAP by itself, is it any different to when it's > being controlled by CAPSMAN ? > > Regards > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On > Behalf Of Erin Murphy > Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM > To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range > > Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my > installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of > some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, > Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 > WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have > regulatory country set in my Capsman controller > and tx strength at default. > Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still > makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. > Long time stalker, first time poster. > > Regards, > > Erin Murphy > CHASE AV > > t. > 0429 336606 > e. > erin@chaseav.com.au > w. > www.chaseav.com.au > a. > P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> > _______________________________________________ > Public mailing list > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mik roti > k.co > m.au > > > _______________________________________________ > Public mailing list > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mik roti > k.co > m.au >
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_______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mik rotik.co m.au
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I tried using access lists to enforce clients changing to a better signal but... *If the client is on the signal edge and there is nothing better it'll just keep trying to connect and then get booted over and over. * iPads and Macbooks do a decent job of switching to a better AP by themselves especially if the network is 5GHz only and you have good placement of 5GHz APs. * Troublesome Windows laptops holding on for too long sometimes have an option to change the roaming parameters to "Aggresive" One Windows laptop behaved much better once I did this. Some smart devices might have this option buried away too. * Even Ubiquity don't want to support or talk about Zerohandoff any more. It was a turkey. I still see people talking about Zerohandoff on Whirlpool like it's the 2nd coming of Christ. So avoid using access lists and power limits to police roaming if you can. Best thing is to optimise you AP placement and power levels (hard to do on 5GHz when different channels have different power limits), keep the Wifi drivers up to date and set roaming to aggresive and keep the smart device OS up to date. Clients seem to do OK now with roaming. Hopefully Mikrotik introduce roaming assistance standards 802.11r and 802.11k. That'd be way more helpful in the long run if they don't secretly do them already. Mikrotik aren't comprehensive in the update of the Changelog. On 21 September 2017 at 13:57, Erin Murphy <erin@chaseav.com.au> wrote:
I also found if you're too aggressive with the access list and kick the client off before they're ready they spend a while in limbo before jumping on to the next AP.
Thanks for the answers!
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Erin Murphy <erin@chaseav.com.au> wrote:
Thanks there's a couple of good reads with some good things to try. Does masquerading AP MAC address (all but one?) achieve the same result as the Unifi method where the controller gets the AP's to appear as one MAC address to the client?
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Mike Everest <mike@duxtel.com> wrote:
:-D - it's a BIT of a hoax, yes, but it can be done from the AP side by masquerading mac addresses and having a smart central controller that handles the transitions. In reality, though, most cases of managed roaming are little more than marketing spin ;)
RouterOS access-control capability to kick clients that drop below some determined signal level is a quite effective way to deal with that 'client choice' issue, but with some devices (I'm looking at YOU, apple ;) it's still a bit like herding cats!
Cheers!
Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 9:35 AM To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au>; jason@upandrunningtech.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Yep I'm a fan of keeping the noise down and not broadcasting to the entire suburb. Since using Mikrotik I've learnt a lot about Wifi and networking in general that you don't learn with the other brands. This 'fast roaming' thing seems to be a bit of a hoax considering it's always a client decision to switch AP's. Will keep using Mikrotik and gradually move customers over to 5GHz only with more AP density.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 at 9:00 am, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
They might have a better antenna configuration and a flatter doughnut shaped beam pattern with higher gain as a result. Given handdeld devices usually have crummy antennas and human in the way 1/2 time they might get a great signal from a loud AP but the return leg won't be so great. Certainly at 5GHz you're better of increasing AP density and lower power to promote smooth roaming but maintain high speeds. For most demanding home jobs the Wifi link has to keep up with 100/40 NBN speeds which 2.4GHz 20MHz channels won't be so good at, even with a tail wind. I haven't bothered with 5GHz at home as am still on a crummy 10/1 ADSL2 link - 12 months to go!
On 21 September 2017 at 08:48, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
I'm not convinced that other brands actually run correct power levels, most people leave them on US settings, I often notice AP's at places I go and wonder how on earth they are getting the range they are on legal settings....
Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 8:17 AM To: jason@upandrunningtech.com.au; MikroTik Australia Public List Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
That's what I've found too, a 5Ghz AP for each room/void which works great but other brands do seem to go further. I leave the Tx power field alone so it's greyed out and I presume at default levels for Australia. I figured it will cause other unwanted issues if you just bump up that value. I have noticed that the 5GHz channels do fluctuate depending on the channel. I wondered if CAPSMAN was smart enough to regulate TX power depending on the clients device and vicinity to the AP but it's just regulatory power levels right? I've checked power levels using the wifi scan on the Airport utility app on my phone and it's a lot lower than other AP's from my experience. Those things might just be flooding the area with brute force and that's what I've got used too? I'll have to take the AP's off CAPSMAN and see how they behave and also try the vertical vs horizontal comparison.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
> I have good performance from the WAPACs. As a rule it's roughly 1 > AP per void/room at 5GHz - and that's assuming the AP is on the > people side of the wall, not hidden in a roof plenum or occluded > by a pillar or column. Don't expect much once walls get in the > way but I have been surprised sometimes. > Also, if you set CAPSMAN or the AP to Auto channel at 5GHz you > will see in CAPSMAN that depending on the channel the power output > is not consistent, but actually conforms to allowed power levels > for that channel. See the Wikipedia page on 5GHz ISM band for per > channel power levels and radar detection. Also, I have noticed > the WAPACs work best when vertical. I have notice a power level > drop, even in Winbox, if they are lying horizontal. > > Once place has a dead spot at 5GHz of 1m radius. Step 1m either > side and it works again! > > On 21 September 2017 at 07:50, Paul Julian > <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> > wrote: > > > Hi Erin, that's an interesting observation, I would have said > > the > opposite > > to be honest, I find the range pretty good on the AP's we use. > > > > Have you checked what TX Power they are running ? is that > > showing correctly ? > > What about a WAP by itself, is it any different to when it's > > being controlled by CAPSMAN ? > > > > Regards > > Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On > > Behalf Of Erin Murphy > > Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM > > To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > > Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range > > > > Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my > > installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of > > some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, > > Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 > > WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have > > regulatory country set in my Capsman > controller > > and tx strength at default. > > Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still > > makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. > > Long time stalker, first time poster. > > > > Regards, > > > > Erin Murphy > > CHASE AV > > > > t. > > 0429 336606 > > e. > > erin@chaseav.com.au > > w. > > www.chaseav.com.au > > a. > > P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au
> > _______________________________________________ > > Public mailing list > > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mik roti > > k.co > > m.au > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Public mailing list > > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mik roti > > k.co > > m.au > > > > > > -- > <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au> > _______________________________________________ > Public mailing list > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com. > au > _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mik rotik.co m.au
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Cheers everyone thanks for the info. Will be able to implement a lot of these tips for a better result for my customers! On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
I tried using access lists to enforce clients changing to a better signal but...
*If the client is on the signal edge and there is nothing better it'll just keep trying to connect and then get booted over and over. * iPads and Macbooks do a decent job of switching to a better AP by themselves especially if the network is 5GHz only and you have good placement of 5GHz APs. * Troublesome Windows laptops holding on for too long sometimes have an option to change the roaming parameters to "Aggresive" One Windows laptop behaved much better once I did this. Some smart devices might have this option buried away too. * Even Ubiquity don't want to support or talk about Zerohandoff any more. It was a turkey. I still see people talking about Zerohandoff on Whirlpool like it's the 2nd coming of Christ.
So avoid using access lists and power limits to police roaming if you can.
Best thing is to optimise you AP placement and power levels (hard to do on 5GHz when different channels have different power limits), keep the Wifi drivers up to date and set roaming to aggresive and keep the smart device OS up to date. Clients seem to do OK now with roaming.
Hopefully Mikrotik introduce roaming assistance standards 802.11r and 802.11k. That'd be way more helpful in the long run if they don't secretly do them already. Mikrotik aren't comprehensive in the update of the Changelog.
On 21 September 2017 at 13:57, Erin Murphy <erin@chaseav.com.au> wrote:
I also found if you're too aggressive with the access list and kick the client off before they're ready they spend a while in limbo before jumping on to the next AP.
Thanks for the answers!
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Erin Murphy <erin@chaseav.com.au> wrote:
Thanks there's a couple of good reads with some good things to try. Does masquerading AP MAC address (all but one?) achieve the same result as the Unifi method where the controller gets the AP's to appear as one MAC address to the client?
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Mike Everest <mike@duxtel.com> wrote:
:-D - it's a BIT of a hoax, yes, but it can be done from the AP side by masquerading mac addresses and having a smart central controller that handles the transitions. In reality, though, most cases of managed roaming are little more than marketing spin ;)
RouterOS access-control capability to kick clients that drop below some determined signal level is a quite effective way to deal with that 'client choice' issue, but with some devices (I'm looking at YOU, apple ;) it's still a bit like herding cats!
Cheers!
Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 9:35 AM To: MikroTik Australia Public List <public@talk.mikrotik.com.au>; jason@upandrunningtech.com.au Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Yep I'm a fan of keeping the noise down and not broadcasting to the entire suburb. Since using Mikrotik I've learnt a lot about Wifi and networking in general that you don't learn with the other brands. This 'fast roaming' thing seems to be a bit of a hoax considering it's always a client decision to switch AP's. Will keep using Mikrotik and gradually move customers over to 5GHz only with more AP density.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 at 9:00 am, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote:
They might have a better antenna configuration and a flatter doughnut shaped beam pattern with higher gain as a result. Given handdeld devices usually have crummy antennas and human in the way 1/2 time they might get a great signal from a loud AP but the return leg won't be so great. Certainly at 5GHz you're better of increasing AP density and lower power to promote smooth roaming but maintain high speeds. For most demanding home jobs the Wifi link has to keep up with 100/40 NBN speeds which 2.4GHz 20MHz channels won't be so good at, even with a tail wind. I haven't bothered with 5GHz at home as am still on a crummy 10/1 ADSL2 link - 12 months to go!
On 21 September 2017 at 08:48, Paul Julian <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> wrote:
> I'm not convinced that other brands actually run correct power > levels, most people leave them on US settings, I often notice AP's > at places I go and wonder how on earth they are getting the range > they are on legal settings.... > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf > Of Erin Murphy > Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 8:17 AM > To: jason@upandrunningtech.com.au; MikroTik Australia Public List > Subject: Re: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range > > That's what I've found too, a 5Ghz AP for each room/void which works great > but other brands do seem to go further. > I leave the Tx power field alone so it's greyed out and I presume at > default levels for Australia. I figured it will cause other unwanted issues > if you just bump up that value. > I have noticed that the 5GHz channels do fluctuate depending on the > channel. I wondered if CAPSMAN was smart enough to regulate TX power > depending on the clients device and vicinity to the AP but it's just > regulatory power levels right? > I've checked power levels using the wifi scan on the Airport utility > app on my phone and it's a lot lower than other AP's from my experience. Those > things might just be flooding the area with brute force and that's > what I've got used too? > I'll have to take the AP's off CAPSMAN and see how they behave and > also try the vertical vs horizontal comparison. > > Regards, > > > > Erin Murphy > CHASE AV > > t. > 0429 336606 > e. > erin@chaseav.com.au > w. > www.chaseav.com.au > a. > P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 > <http://www.chaseav.com.au> > > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) < > jason@upandrunningtech.com.au> wrote: > > > I have good performance from the WAPACs. As a rule it's roughly 1 > > AP per void/room at 5GHz - and that's assuming the AP is on the > > people side of the wall, not hidden in a roof plenum or occluded > > by a pillar or column. Don't expect much once walls get in the > > way but I have been > surprised sometimes. > > Also, if you set CAPSMAN or the AP to Auto channel at 5GHz you > > will see in CAPSMAN that depending on the channel the power output > > is not consistent, but actually conforms to allowed power levels > > for that channel. See the Wikipedia page on 5GHz ISM band for per > > channel power levels and radar detection. Also, I have noticed > > the WAPACs work best when vertical. I have notice a power level > > drop, even in Winbox, if they are lying horizontal. > > > > Once place has a dead spot at 5GHz of 1m radius. Step 1m either > > side and it works again! > > > > On 21 September 2017 at 07:50, Paul Julian > > <paul@oxygennetworks.com.au> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Erin, that's an interesting observation, I would have said > > > the > > opposite > > > to be honest, I find the range pretty good on the AP's we use. > > > > > > Have you checked what TX Power they are running ? is that > > > showing correctly ? > > > What about a WAP by itself, is it any different to when it's > > > being controlled by CAPSMAN ? > > > > > > Regards > > > Paul > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On > > > Behalf Of Erin Murphy > > > Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM > > > To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > > > Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range > > > > > > Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my > > > installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of > > > some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, > > > Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 > > > WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have > > > regulatory country set in my Capsman > > controller > > > and tx strength at default. > > > Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still > > > makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. > > > Long time stalker, first time poster. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Erin Murphy > > > CHASE AV > > > > > > t. > > > 0429 336606 > > > e. > > > erin@chaseav.com.au > > > w. > > > www.chaseav.com.au > > > a. > > > P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 < http://www.chaseav.com.au
> > > _______________________________________________ > > > Public mailing list > > > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > > > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk. mik roti > > > k.co > > > m.au > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Public mailing list > > > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > > > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk. mik roti > > > k.co > > > m.au > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > <https://www.upandrunningtech.com.au> > > _______________________________________________ > > Public mailing list > > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com . > > au > > > _______________________________________________ > Public mailing list > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mik rotik.co > m.au > > > _______________________________________________ > Public mailing list > Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au > http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mik rotik.co > m.au >
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Hi Erin, Just a side note compared to great replies from others already! No two locations are the same - so you can't usually predict what kind or quantity of devices you'll need to suit a given application based on what you have used in a similar (or apparently similar) situation before. I've written a couple of articles that cover some of the reasons why that is so - just in case they might be relevant to your cases: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=48 https://shop.duxtel.com.au/article_info.php?articles_id=57 Comments are welcome! ;) Cheers! Mike.
-----Original Message----- From: Public [mailto:public-bounces@talk.mikrotik.com.au] On Behalf Of Erin Murphy Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017 7:46 AM To: public@talk.mikrotik.com.au Subject: [MT-AU Public] Mikrotik AP range
Hi all I've started to use Mikrotik on a regular basis on my installs and have found the range on their AP's are far short of some of the other brands I've been using. Have used Unifi, Luxul, Ignitenet etc and now Mikrotik. Have found I need up to 3 WAPACS where I would normally use 1 with another brand. I have regulatory country set in my Capsman controller and tx strength at default. Is this what others have found? The price of Mikrotik still makes it viable but the roaming between 3 AP's as opposed to 1 is a worry. Long time stalker, first time poster.
Regards,
Erin Murphy CHASE AV
t. 0429 336606 e. erin@chaseav.com.au w. www.chaseav.com.au a. P.O. Box 933, Narrabeen, NSW, 2101 <http://www.chaseav.com.au> _______________________________________________ Public mailing list Public@talk.mikrotik.com.au http://talk.mikrotik.com.au/mailman/listinfo/public_talk.mikrotik.com.au
participants (4)
-
Erin Murphy -
Jason Hecker (Up & Running Tech) -
Mike Everest -
Paul Julian